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<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif" 
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	>Mandrake 8.1 fd0 unknown device, and downloading pictures from a digital camera</H3>


<p><strong>Questions From F F, Mike "Iron" Orr 
</strong></p> 


<p align="right"><strong>Answered By  Chris Gianakopoulos, Ben Okopnik, Mike "Iron" Orr, Heather Stern
</strong></p>
<P><STRONG>
I can't read the FLoPPY disk! both cd roms works properly, but there's no
way to access the flp!
(Yeah, it is! in the drive)
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Does someone have the solution?
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Chris G] 
I know that this question might sound silly, but, is your floppy drive one
of those LS-120 drives?  If the answer is yes, then, it looks like an IDE
hard drive, and you mount it like a hard drive.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
If it is a regular floppy, and you know that the floppy works, I would
check the bios settings on your computer and see if the floppy controller is
enabled.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Also type "dmesg" and see if a floppy controller has been detected.  If the
floppy controller was detected, I would check the cables to the floppy drive
and its power connector.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
The last resort -- swap the floppy drive with another known good drive.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I hope that this helps.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
I guess it depends on whether the querent is running Linux, Chris; if
so, he hasn't mentioned it. In case he is, a simple "mount" command
might help.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Hmm. I'm going to try something that might be useful here. The idea
behind this is "how would I phrase the querent's question if I was
having this kind of a problem?" The question, when properly phrased,
should contain the solution - as they very often do. Perhaps modeling
clueful behavior may be a useful thing...
</blockQuote>

<TABLE WIDTH="95%" BORDER="1" BGCOLOR="#FFFFCC"><TR><TD>
<p align="center">...............</p>
<blockQuote>
Dear Answer Gang,
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I am having a problem reading a floppy that I made under Wind*ws; I'm
running Mandrake 8.1.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I can see the files on that same floppy under Wind*ws, using the same
machine and drive, so I know the hardware itself is OK.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I've issued a "mount -t vfat <TT>/dev/fd0</TT> <TT>/floppy</TT>" command to mount it
(there were no errors when I did), have made sure that I do have a
"<TT>/floppy</TT>" directory, and am using "ls -l <TT>/floppy</TT>" to check it;
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
(A reference to exactly which command coughed up the complaint
"fd0 unknown device" would fit here nicely.)
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I get no output other than "total 0" (an empty directory). I've made sure
that the drive light comes on when I try to read it, so it seems like
the drive is being accessed - but I still can't see any of the files.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Any help would be appreciated.
</blockQuote><p align="center">...............</p>
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<blockquote><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Heather] Of course, if they knew enough to say all this, they probably wouldn't
ask us anything...  and it's much easier for an utter newbie to assume
we will somehow know what he's talking about, since we've seen so much
before.  Bravo for answering in true Answer Guy style - if need be, use
your own sense of autocompletion to upgrade an interesting question to
readability, then answer the result.  At least <EM>somebody</EM> will get a
good answer from it 
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)" 
		height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</blockquote>
<blockquote>I have to remind the Answer Gang to read subjects as well as
messages. though.  It usually isn't much but every clue is something. 
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)" 
		height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</blockquote>
<blockquote>I note that if you have a bad /etc/mtab then just running 'mount' to ask
the system what is mounted can provide strange and wrong results.  To be
sure you're getting the real info, ask the proc filesystem:
	cat /proc/mounts
</blockquote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Chirs G] 
Right you are, Ben!  I have not answered any Answer Gang questions for a
while, and, it would seem that I forgot how!!  I don't know what was up in
my mind.  For some reason, I must have been looking at a previous Linux
question, and I connected "F F"'s email with that question.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Thanks for that constructive input, Ben.
</blockQuote>

<blockquote><em>Congrats to Ben for an excellent answer.  And maybe one that belongs in
ask-the-gang.html somewhere.
 -- Mike</em></blockquote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
Thanks. I thought it might be a good way to model something useful; I
don't know that there's a good way of adding it to "ATG", but I'll try
doing it that way a few more times (I don't think we're going to run
short of poorly-phrased queries anytime soon), and maybe the idea will
get propagated just due to its exposure to the LG-reading crowd. I
<EM>like</EM> the idea of folks being effective at asking questions; if I can
contribute to even a small increase in cluefulness in the general
population, I'm happy.
</blockQuote>

<blockquote><em>It's easy to assume the querent is having the same problem you've had before.
And since I have used Linux exclusively for several years ...  I forget what kind of
assumptions Windows users make.  So you are not the only one who answers an
ambiguous question with a Linux answer and doesn't even realize it.
 -- Mike</em></blockquote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Chris G] 
It's gotten automatic now.  I used to use Microsoft Outlook for reading my
email.  Once I set up Sendmail and Mutt, I use Windows for playing network
Doom with my kids.  I remember, though, if the question is ambiguous,
answer with a Linux solution.  I like Ben's example, though.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
I also forgot to suggest to the querent to try booting off of the
floppy using a dos-based disk.  I had a similar problem when helping a
coworker install a <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/">SuSE</A> distribution on a Compaq DeskPro computer.  I
noticed that the system would not boot from the floppy drive, and, upon
closer inspection, I realized that the floppy drive was an LS-120 drive.
As a result, the mtools stuff did not work.  We went ahead and looked at
<TT>/etc/fstab</TT> and saw an entry that corresponded to the LS-120 drive.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
Hmm, that's odd. I've got an LS-120 in my desktop PC, and it boots just
fine. However, you're right about "mtools" freaking out about it: that
120MB capacity fries its little brain... I was never able to find a
combination of switches for "superformat" that would let me do anything
with it, even to the extent of creating a 1.7MB floppy. 
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/unsmily.gif" ALT=":(" 
		height="24" width="20" align="middle"> Kinda sucky.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Chris G] 
Maybe there was something about the bios settings of the Compaq computer.
I recall that we could not do anything with the bios setup because we did
not have the password to the thing.  Soooo..., you can boot off of an
LS-120.  Cool.
</blockQuote>

<blockquote><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Heather] I have found that I could boot from LS-120s and as I recall I could
work with 1.44 disks.  What I don't remember, because it was a pain, is
whether I could format them after some setup tweaks, or if I could dd
them.  I recall I could only do one and not the other, and I couldn't
make 1.722 disks using the tomsrtbt setup.  Very annoying, but possibly
also the victim of Tom using an older floppy formatting program because
it was smaller.  I considered the whole thing fitful and use my trusty
laptop to cough floppies.  Except that it can't mount floppies directly
very well, so I 'dd' images of the floppy off, and loopback mount them.
Raw access works fine, it just seems to be a timing thing.  But I'm not
complaining, because the loopback mounted images are much faster than a
floppy, anyway, and the diskette is safe from being scrambled unless I
<EM>deliberately</EM>  copy the image back out.
</blockquote>

<!-- end 5 -->
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<!-- begin 6 -->
<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif" 
	height="50" width="60" alt="(?) " border="0"
	>Mandrake 8.1 fd0 unknown device, and digital camera</H3>


<p><strong>From Mike 'Iron' Orr 
</strong></p> 
<p></strong></p>

<p align="right"><strong>Answered By  Ben Okopnik
</strong></p>
<P><STRONG>
And since I have used Linux exclusively for several years
(except a few times a year to download pics from my digital camera), ...
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
I got myself a FlashPath "floppy" to bypass all that. Stick the
SmartCard into the gadget, use the modified version of "mtools" to read
it (standard "mtools" functionality plus FlashPath capability), and all
is good. Besides, the various camera interface utils (GPhoto, etc.) are
getting pretty darn hot these days.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> 
The camera is a Canon Elf S100, which uses compact flash memory.  It was
working with gphoto2 command-line mode at one point.  Then the USB
device entry disappeared in the middle of a download.  Usually that
meant the battery went dead and I try it again with a recharged battery.
But the last time, it wouldn't acknowledge the device at all.  Then in
Windows it stopped recognizing the device too, so I figured the camera's
USB interface was defective, because the card works fine in the camera.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
So I bought one of those little USB card readers.  Not only do you not
have to worry about batteries, but supposedly the card shows up like
a removable disk drive, with ordinary files, bypassing the
ideosyncracies of each camera driver.  But Windows wouldn't mount the
card, it just said "invalid filesystem format" or something like that.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
Right - despite the "ordinary files", etc. advertisements, it does <EM>not</EM>
look like a standard floppy even to Wind*ws - a special driver is
required (at least this is true for SmartDisk FlashPath 'floppies'.) The
same is true for Linux; hence the special version of "mtools" (it's a
binary-only driver - there is a source tarball, but I was unable to
compile it, and the author himself says to use the RPM with the binary.)
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> 
So I hooked up the camera to
Windows again, and this time it recognized the camera.  For software I
had the Kodak Imaging program that came with the camera, and Photoshop.
Photoshop's "import..." menu option was disabled for some unknown reason
even though I had used it before.  So I tried the Imaging program.  But
that program is too horrible to use.  It takes a lot of clicks to
download each picture, and I had 150 of them.  And it kept trying to
save in TIFF format, taking forever to save one image and insisting on
using TIFF format, which is big, and somehow it used all 100 MB of free
disk space and I had to kill the program, and every time I tried to save
it did something similar.  So that was useless.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
So I downloaded kernel 2.4.18 and was delighted to see there's a USB
driver for my card reader.  I'm hoping when I try it out it will work,
and that it will recognize the card's filesystem.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
I suspect that it won't. 
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/unsmily.gif" ALT=":(" 
		height="24" width="20" align="middle"> The "tweaked mtools" author is a guy name of
Jason McMullan (<A HREF="mailto:jmcmullan@linuxcare.com"
	>jmcmullan@linuxcare.com</A>) (Jim, Heather - somebody you
know?); the version that I have is "mtools-3.9.7-7fp.i386.rpm". I
renamed it to "mtools-9.9.7-7fp.i386.rpm" before running alien; that
way, the version info shows a high number and updating <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/">Debian</A> doesn't
overwrite my version.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> 
Is there a floppy reader for compact flash?
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> [Ben] 
ISTR that SmartDisk makes one, but I'm not 100% certain. Worth looking
into, though; I like my little gadget.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
	HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
	> 
I found gphoto and gphoto2 to be a total pain.  My camera was only
in gphoto2, which was an unreleased development version at the time
so there was no Debian package.  Of course, the usage instructions
I had were for the old version, and the GUI front end had been
replaced by something else that I think was missing something.
Maybe it's better now.  But having the images appear as files is
really what I want to do anyway.
</STRONG></P>

<H4>Update some time later</H4>

<P><STRONG>
I finally got my pictures out.  I compiled a new kernel with the basic
USB stuff in, and used Debian's gphoto 2.0 final.  To download all photos:
<PRE>
gphoto2 --camera "Canon PowerShot S100" --port usb --get-pictures
</PRE>
Or to download certain pictures by index number (starting at 1):
<PRE>
gphoto2 --camera "Canon PowerShot S100" --port usb --list-files >files
gphoto2 --camera "Canon PowerShot S100" --port usb --get-picture 5-10
</PRE>
Deiconifying the xconsole window helped too because it showed that the
USB system was sending syslog messages.  Often there was a timeout error
but it would recover.  But not infrequently it wouldn't recover, and I'd
press the camera power switch a couple times but not get the message I get
when it's successful.  Then I'd have to reboot the computer and try again.
(Perhaps if I'd compiled the USB as modules, I could have unloaded and
reloaded the modules.)
</STRONG></P>

<P><STRONG>
I had less luck with the Lexar card reader although it did download some
images.  For this, you need not only the kernel USB support but also SCSI
"generic device" support (not just SCSI disk support).  You also need the
USB Storage module.  With all this in place, when you stick the Compact
Flash card in the reader, it shows up as a SCSI disk, /dev/sda1, which you
can mount as an msdos filesystem or use (the ordinary) mtools on.  (The
mtools configuration line is, 'drive c: file="/dev/sda1"'.)  But the problem
with this is that after twenty-five pictures at the beginning (or after three
or even one picture later), the light on the card reader would go off and it
would play dead.  This isn't a battery problem because the reader gets its
power from the USB bus.  The processes would be in "D" state ("uninterruptable
sleep" in the ps listing) so they can't be killed.  Also, they make the 
system unable to shut down cleanly: 'halt', 'reboot' and the vulcan nerve
pinch just hang at "Sending processes the TERM signal" until you ctrl-C and
continue.  So I have to do a cold boot with the power switch.  To prevent
disk corruption, I upgraded my ext2 partitions to ext3 (journalled):
<PRE>
tune2fs -j /dev/hdc10
</PRE>
then changing "ext2" to "ext3" in /etc/fstab.  This hang, reboot, restart
cycle went several times before I gave up on the card reader.  Defective
reader?  Buggy USB drivers?  I don't know.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>But it was satisfying seeing my card reader <EM>more</EM> compatible
with Linux than with Windows 2000/XP.  Windows would try to mount the card
reader and give up silently or say "invalid filesystem format".  Take that, 
Windows!
</STRONG></P>

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<BR>Published in issue 80 of <I>Linux Gazette</I> July 2002</H5>
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