File: zlib_license_change.txt

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Original discussion is partially quoted in here, thread is archived at:
  http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?4:mss:209:200306:nhnacekcfbbhichggfpk


These are the emails I got approving the change to a zlib license. I have
removed the authors' email addresses for spam safety.  --ryan.







From xxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jun  9 07:56:24 2003
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:17:18 +0100
From: Adam D. Moss <xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.


"I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own
in PhysicsFS"  (and think it's generally a swell idea...)

> Adam D. Moss
> ------------
>  extras/abs-file.h (need you to sign off on whole file):
>   http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/co.php/extras/abs-file.h?rt=physfs&r=1.3


-- 
Adam D. Moss   . ,,^^   xxxxxxxxx   http://www.foxbox.org/   co:3
"Responsible parents don't raise kids in West Virginia."


From xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jun  9 16:45:02 2003
Date: Mon,  9 Jun 2003 11:37:31 -0700
From: Bradley Bell <xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.

    [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
    [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set.  ]
    [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

Quoting "Ryan C. Gordon" <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

> Please discuss.

Sounds fine to me.  And it makes it easier for me to use it in d2x. (which has a
very confusing license)

-brad



From xxxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jun  9 16:45:12 2003
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:00:13 -0700
From: David Hedbor <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.

As mentioned before, I'm all for the license change since it would
benefit me personally. 
-- 
[ Below is a random fortune, which is unrelated to the above message. ]
The Hollywood tradition I like best is called "sucking up to the stars."
		-- Johnny Carson


From xxxxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jun  9 16:45:22 2003
Date: 09 Jun 2003 14:13:00 -0500
From: Edward Rudd <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
To: "physfs@icculus.org" <physfs@icculus.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.

On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:50, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:
That's fine with me.. You have permissions from me.
> 
> Edward Rudd
> -----------
>  RPM specfile (need you to sign off on whole file):
>   http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/physfs.spec.in?rt=physfs

-- 
Edward Rudd <xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Home Page <http://urkle.drip.ws/>


From xxxxxxxxxxx Wed Jun 11 13:15:28 2003
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Wing <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.

Hi Ryan,
Sorry for the delayed response. (email troubles at
Stanford among other things)

I approve of a switch to the zlib license for
code I own in PhysicsFS, so you can sign off
everything I have there.

Thanks,
Eric


--- "Ryan C. Gordon" <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
wrote:
> 
> I like to be helpful when people ask me questions
> about PhysicsFS. I may not
> always have an immediate solution, but I hate
> telling people "that can't be
> done at all".
> 
> There is one problem that comes up a lot at which I
> just have to shrug my
> shoulders, and that's distribution.
> 
> PhysicsFS, being LGPL'd, can not be statically
> linked to a closed-source
> program. Generally this is not an obstacle so much
> as an annoyance for the
> application developer, since they need to ship a
> shared library and do some
> other legal tapdancing (hey, _someone_ will be a
> pain and demand a copy of the
> physfs source tree by postal mail someday!). End
> result: developers unhappily
> put up with distribution issues and possible bug
> reports, or they do without.
> 
> There are places where this annoyance can be a
> showstopper, though. For
> example, I was contacted about a year ago by a game
> shop that wanted to use
> PhysicsFS in a PlayStation 2 title, since the
> PhysicsFS API combined with
> its efficient zipfile archiver is _very_ appealing
> in light of the PSX2's
> awful native filesystem limitations.
> 
> How does one ship an LGPL'd library in a console
> game? End users can't relink
> the bugger, after all. Furthermore, their legal
> department had a fit when they
> heard about the "viral" nature of the license when
> statically linking it...
> there is no such thing as "dynamic" linking on a
> PlayStation 2.
> 
> Now, here's the lesson for any future project
> maintainers: either don't accept
> patches, or make sure you own the copyright on _all_
> the code before accepting
> it. I have poured years of effort into PhysicsFS,
> but I don't own all the code,
> so I couldn't just grant a license exemption to this
> console developer. End
> result: they did without.
> 
> I don't like my own hands being tied by my own
> license. That really doesn't
> seem fair to me.
> 
> So for these reasons, I've decided to switch
> PhysicsFS to the zlib license.
> The end result of this is that there will be no
> confusion as to how you can
> use the library ("any way you like") and how you can
> distribute it ("any way
> you like"). The only significant loss is that
> contributers are no longer
> legally obligated to give back source changes, but
> I'm confident that
> developers will if it's generally useful and
> relevant to the public. At least,
> I don't think we should license the library with the
> assumption that
> programmers must have their hands forced to do the
> right thing.
> 
> For those that aren't aware of the zlib license,
> here it is. zlib is used in
> all sorts of software without you needing to think
> about it (including
> PhysicsFS), and the license is by far the simplest
> I've ever seen. This is
> the text:
> 
>    Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders>
> 
>    This software is provided 'as-is', without any
> express or implied warranty.
>    In no event will the authors be held liable for
> any damages arising from
>    the use of this software.
> 
>    Permission is granted to anyone to use this
> software for any purpose,
>    including commercial applications, and to alter
> it and redistribute it
>    freely, subject to the following restrictions:
> 
>    1. The origin of this software must not be
> misrepresented; you must not
>    claim that you wrote the original software. If
> you use this software in a
>    product, an acknowledgment in the product
> documentation would be
>    appreciated but is not required.
> 
>    2. Altered source versions must be plainly marked
> as such, and must not be
>    misrepresented as being the original software.
> 
>    3. This notice may not be removed or altered from
> any source distribution.
> 
> 
> That's that.
> 
> 
> Here's how this works: I've compiled a list of all
> contributors to PhysicsFS
> and what was contributed. I need from these people a
> message saying that they
> will approve a switch to the zlib license. Nothing
> fancy, just quote this
> email and say something like "I approve of a switch
> to the zlib license for
> code I own in PhysicsFS." You still own the
> copyright on that bit of code, but
> it'll be under the zlib license.
> 
> I can't switch the license until all the developers,
> below, give me permission,
> or their code has been replaced or removed.
> 
> If you contributed something and I missed you,
> please let me know. If I don't
> hear from you, I'll try to track you down. If I
> can't track you down, we've
> got to remove or replace your code.
> 
> For application developers and end users: you use
> any code up until we switch
> under the LGPL. After the switch, you can use the
> older code under the LGPL
> and the new code under the zlib license. You have
> less restrictions with the
> zlib license, so you'll probably want to upgrade.
> 
> 
> Please discuss.
> 
> --ryan.
> 
> 
> 
> Contributors:
>  I tried to list everything, but the LGPL says you
> can cut-and-paste up to ten
>  lines of code, so if you fixed a few typos, you
> might not be listed here. If
>  this is a concern, please speak up.
> 
> 
> 
> David Hedbor
> ------------
>  Patch to handle situation when CWD is deleted out
> from under program:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.22&r2=1.23&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.11&r2=1.12&ty=u
> 
>  Patch to make PHYSFS_setSaneConfig() set Write
> Directory correctly:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.23&r2=1.24&ty=u
> 
>  PocketPC patches:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/pocketpc.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.1&r2=1.2&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/archivers/zip.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.61&r2=1.62&ty=u
> 
> 
> Patrick Stein
> -------------
>  More-portable __PHYSFS_platformTimeslice() for
> Unix:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.12&r2=1.13&ty=u
> 
>  General BSD-ish (but originally for Darwin) CD-ROM
> detection:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.13&r2=1.14&ty=u
> 
> 
> Gregory S. Read
> ---------------
>  Lots of Win32 work (need you to sign off on whole
> file):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/platform/win32.c?rt=physfs
> 
>  Microsoft .NET bindings (need you to sign off on
> whole directory tree):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/extras/PhysFS.NET?rt=physfs
> 
> 
> John Hall
> ---------
>  PHYSFS_getLastModTime() API:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.39&r2=1.40&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/macclassic.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.9&r2=1.10&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/posix.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.1&r2=1.2&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/skeleton.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.3&r2=1.4&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/win32.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.18&r2=1.19&ty=u
> 
> 
> Alexander Pipelka
> -----------------
>  configure.in fixes:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/configure.in?rt=physfs&r1=1.19&r2=1.20&ty=u
> 
>  doOpen() fix:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/posix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.6&r2=1.7&ty=u
> 
>  Strange $PATH fix:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.38&r2=1.39&ty=u
> 
> 
> Edward Rudd
> -----------
>  RPM specfile (need you to sign off on whole file):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/physfs.spec.in?rt=physfs
> 
> 
> Ed Sinjiashvili
> ---------------
>  Various Russian translations:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.33&r2=1.34&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.34&r2=1.35&ty=u
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.37&r2=1.38&ty=u
> 
>  Ruby bindings (need you to sign off on whole
> directory tree):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/extras/physfs_rb?rt=physfs
> 
>  QPAK archiver (need you to sign off on whole file):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/archivers/qpak.c?rt=physfs
> 
> 
> Pedro J. P^�rez
> ---------------
>  Spanish translation:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.35&r2=1.36&ty=u
> 
> 
> Stepane Peter
> -------------
>  French translation:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.36&r2=1.37&ty=u
> 
> 
> Michael Renner
> --------------
>  German translation:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/physfs_internal.h?rt=physfs&r1=1.42&r2=1.43&ty=u
> 
> 
> Adam D. Moss
> ------------
>  extras/abs-file.h (need you to sign off on whole
> file):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/co.php/extras/abs-file.h?rt=physfs&r=1.3
> 
> 
> "Corona688"
> -----------
>  Initial PocketPC port (need you to sign off on
> whole file):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/co.php/platform/pocketpc.c?rt=physfs&r=1.1
> 
> 
> Eric Wing
> ---------
>  Apple Project Builder build system (need you to
> sign off on whole dir tree):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/PBProjects?rt=physfs
> 
>  MacOS X Application Bundle workarounds:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&r1=1.39&r2=1.40&ty=u
> 
> 
> Colin Bayer
> -----------
>  Debian package support (need you to sign off on
> whole directory tree):
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/debian?rt=physfs
> 
> 
> Bradley Bell
> ------------
>  HOG archiver:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/archivers/hog.c?rt=physfs
> 
>  MVL archiver:
>  
>
http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/cvs.php/archivers/mvl.c?rt=physfs
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fri Jun 20 18:07:25 2003
Date: 16 Jun 2003 16:41:31 +0200
From: Alexander Pipelka <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "icculus@clutteredmind.org" <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: [physfs] License change proposition.

Hi Ryan,

No problem. Please change the licensing model as you like.

Alex

PS: Sorry for my late reply, I just returned from vacation.

Am Mon, 2003-06-09 um 12.50 schrieb Ryan C. Gordon:
> Alexander Pipelka
> -----------------
>  configure.in fixes:
>   http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/configure.in?rt=physfs&r1=1.19&r2=1.20&ty=u
> 
>  doOpen() fix:
>   http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/posix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.6&r2=1.7&ty=u
> 
>  Strange $PATH fix:
>   http://cvs.icculus.org/horde/chora/diff.php/platform/unix.c?rt=physfs&ws=0&r1=1.38&r2=1.39&ty=u



From xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thu Jul 10 03:27:43 2003
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:10:16 -0700
From: "xxxxxxxxxxx" <xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "icculus@icculus.org" <icculus@icculus.org>
Subject: physfs

I hereby assign the copyright of any changes I have made to PhysicsFS to Ryan Gordon.

And thanks for asking, even though I obviously wouldn't have a problem with this.

-John

From xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thu Jul 10 04:26:07 2003
Date: 10 Jul 2003 01:23:25 -0700
From: Colin Bayer <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@icculus.org>
Subject: physicsfs/zlib

> Here's how this works: I've compiled a list of all contributors to
PhysicsFS
> and what was contributed. I need from these people a message saying that they
> will approve a switch to the zlib license. Nothing fancy, just quote this
> email and say something like "I approve of a switch to the zlib license for
> code I own in PhysicsFS." You still own the copyright on that bit of code, but
> it'll be under the zlib license.

I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own in PhysicsFS.

-- Colin Bayer <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

    [ Part 2, "This is a digitally signed message part"  ]
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From xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thu Jul 10 14:40:34 2003
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:17:00 -0500
From: Patrick Stein <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: PhysicsFS license change.


Wow... forgot that I had ever written anything for that...
Anyhow... in addition to having no problems with you
changing the license.... I also give to you any say in
any future matters pertaining to the two or three lines
of code that I sent you.  8^)

alter,
Patrick


On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 01:07 PM, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

>
> Hey there,
>
> I'm looking to change the licensing on PhysicsFS from LGPL to the zlib
> license. The long explanation is here:
>
>    
> http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm- 
> cgi?4:mss:209:200306:nhnacekcfbbhichggfpk
>
> If you're reading this, it means that I never got a response on the
> mailing list, either because you aren't subscribed, or because you  
> missed
> it, and this is the last email address I have for you....but I need
> explicit permission from you to convert code you wrote (even if it was
> just a natural language translation) to a different license.
>
> If you don't mind switching to zlib, please respond with something  
> along
> the lines of "I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own  
> in
> PhysicsFS."
>
> If you have any problems, that's okay, too, just let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> --ryan.
>


From xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thu Jul 10 14:40:40 2003
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:33:26 -0700
From: Stephane Peter <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: PhysicsFS license change.

You know, I don't think I ever contributed code to physfs, but if you
manage to find out something I may have, then you have my approval to
switch it to the zlib license... 


On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 11:07, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:
> Hey there,
> 
> I'm looking to change the licensing on PhysicsFS from LGPL to the zlib
> license. The long explanation is here:
> 
>   http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?4:mss:209:200306:nhnacekcfbbhichggfpk
> 
> If you're reading this, it means that I never got a response on the
> mailing list, either because you aren't subscribed, or because you missed
> it, and this is the last email address I have for you....but I need
> explicit permission from you to convert code you wrote (even if it was
> just a natural language translation) to a different license.
> 
> If you don't mind switching to zlib, please respond with something along
> the lines of "I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own in
> PhysicsFS."
> 
> If you have any problems, that's okay, too, just let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> --ryan.
-- 
Stephane Peter
Sr. Software Engineer
Codehost, Inc.



From xxxxxxxxxxxx Thu Jul 10 21:07:13 2003
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:08:44 +0200 (CEST)
From: Michael Renner <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: PhysicsFS license change.



On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

>
> Hey there,
>
> I'm looking to change the licensing on PhysicsFS from LGPL to the zlib
> license. The long explanation is here:

Hi Ryan!

For your mailfilters:

"I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own in PhysicsFS."

The change of license makes sense, what use is a library when the target
audience is reluctant to use it. Keep up the good work.

Btw. if you need any other non-babelfish english -> german translations
just contact me.

best regards,
michael renner

From xxxxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jul 14 16:36:06 2003
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:57:28 -0400
From: Gregory S. Read <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: PhysicsFS license change.

I have no problem with you licensing my contributed code for PhysFS to 
the zlib licensing.

Have a nice day.

Greg

Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

>Hey there,
>
>I'm looking to change the licensing on PhysicsFS from LGPL to the zlib
>license. The long explanation is here:
>
>  http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?4:mss:209:200306:nhnacekcfbbhichggfpk
>
>If you're reading this, it means that I never got a response on the
>mailing list, either because you aren't subscribed, or because you missed
>it, and this is the last email address I have for you....but I need
>explicit permission from you to convert code you wrote (even if it was
>just a natural language translation) to a different license.
>
>If you don't mind switching to zlib, please respond with something along
>the lines of "I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own in
>PhysicsFS."
>
>If you have any problems, that's okay, too, just let me know.
>
>Thanks,
>--ryan.
>
>
>  
>


From xxxxxxxxxxxx Mon Jul 14 16:36:15 2003
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:26:38 -0600
From: Tyler Montbriand <xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: Re: PhysicsFS license change.

    [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
    [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set.  ]
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Hello.  Sorry for delay in reply, things've been messed up for the last couple 
while..

I think that changing it to the Zlib license is a great idea...  never 
realized there were those sort of complications with the LGPL - thought it 
was a much less restrictive license than your plain vanilla GPL, but I guess 
not less restrictive enough.  I've no problem at all with you putting any of 
the code I've contributed under the Zlib license.

-Tyler Montbriand/Corona688

On Thursday 10 July 2003 12:07 pm, you wrote:
> Hey there,
>
> I'm looking to change the licensing on PhysicsFS from LGPL to the zlib
> license. The long explanation is here:
>
>  
> http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?4:mss:209:200306:nhnacekcfbbhich
>ggfpk
>
> If you're reading this, it means that I never got a response on the
> mailing list, either because you aren't subscribed, or because you missed
> it, and this is the last email address I have for you....but I need
> explicit permission from you to convert code you wrote (even if it was
> just a natural language translation) to a different license.
>
> If you don't mind switching to zlib, please respond with something along
> the lines of "I approve of a switch to the zlib license for code I own in
> PhysicsFS."
>
> If you have any problems, that's okay, too, just let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> --ryan.


From xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sun Jul 20 23:59:48 2003
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:09:24 +0400
From: Ed Sinjiashvili <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Ryan C. Gordon <icculus@clutteredmind.org>
Subject: PhysicsFS license change
Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:15:32 +0400
Resent-From: Ed Sinjiashvili <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Resent-To: "Ryan C. Gordon" <icculus@clutteredmind.org>

Hi,

I have just read the news on icculus.org and I guess I'm one of the
two contributors you could not contact (at least I did not got any
mails from PhysicsFS mailing list for quite a while - so I did not
know what was happenning). 

I really have no problems with this licence switch from LGPL to zlib
and I agree to sign all my contributions (qpak archiver, ruby bindings
and russian translations) under zlib.

I saw that you removed all my contributions from PhysicsFS - now that
I agreed to license change you could revert them. 

-- Ed

P.S. I have mail on icculus.org - if you can't reach me I guess
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is always possible.