From friedman  Sat Aug  3 19:54:19 1996
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	[nil "Sat" "3" "Aug" "1996" "21:33:05" "-0500" "Mandar Mirashi" "mandar@kiowa.wildstar.net" nil nil nil "^From:" nil nil "08" nil nil nil nil]
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From: Mandar Mirashi <mandar@kiowa.wildstar.net>
To: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: Undernet IRC protocol changes
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:33:05 -0500

Hello there,

     This mail is being sent to all IRC client coders, announcing some
changes in the server-client protocol on the Undernet IRC network. An
RFC supplementing RFC1459 is in the works (it's unclear when this will
be released however). In the meanwhile, I'll try to update you with any
significant changes/features/bugs that affect clients.

1) the /list command.
======================

   The default action of the /list command (to list all channels) has
   been disabled since it was found to consume a lot of CPU on IRC
   servers (with hundreds of clients listing thousands of channels).
   Changes include a _required_ paramater to LIST. 

*** Usage on ircII:  /QUOTE LIST parameters
*** Where parameters is a space or comma seperated list of one or more of:
***  <max_users    ; Show all channels with less then max_users.
***  >min_users    ; Show all channels with more then min_users.
***  C<max_minutes ; Channels that exist less then max_minutes.
***  C>min_minutes ; Channels that exist more then min_minutes.
***  T<max_minutes ; Channels with a topic last set less then max_minutes
  ago.
***  T>min_minutes ; Channels with a topic last set more then min_minutes
  ago.
*** Example:  LIST <3,>1,C<10,T>0  ; 2 users, younger then 10 min., topic
  set.

   We suggest incorporating this change directly into your client so that
   a /quote is no longer needed (i.e. a direct message to the server).


2) PONG replies
================

   To counter source routing/ip-spoofing, Undernet IRC servers send a PING
   command to the client followed by a random key. The client is expected
   to respond with this key as a parameter to PONG. e.g.
     server -> client      PING :23472820203484
     client to server      PONG :23472820203484

   ircII and mirc are two clients that already follow this. I'm not sure
   about other clients.

3) Other Undernet changes
=========================
 
   A list of all Undernet server numerics are included in the server source.

   ftp://ftp.undernet.org/irc/servers/current

   Significant changes over the past few years, affecting clients, include: 
   /stats w replies, /stats g replies, /silence replies, channel topic 
   information replies, user signon time reply, channel
   creation time reply, etc. I've attached the file for your convenience.
   Please check if your client responds to these numeric replies. 

   I also suggest adding the /map and /silence commands to your clients 
   (/silence cuts off flooding at the server level: syntax: 
      /silence +user@host   or  /silence nick
   /silence -user@host     or  /silence -nick     to delete a silenced entry.
   /map returns the current routing map of irc servers).

   There's also a patch removing /away from the server (this functionality 
   belongs to the client) in its review stages. You may wish to implement 
   a mechanism that simulates /away on your client without using the server
   message, to prepare for this possible future change.

New versions
=============

    If you release new versions of your clients, please upload them to
    /incoming on ftp.undernet.org and drop me a note. I'll move them to 
    the correct location asap. We're mirrored on ftp2-4.undernet.org. I'd
    really appreciate it if you could take a moment and verify that the latest
    version of your client is out there. Thanks.
    

Feedback
========

    To stay in touch with Undernet IRC protocol changes / server code
    patches, you're welcome to join the Undernet coder committee mailing
    list. Simply drop  a mail to majordomo@undernet.org with 
    "subscribe coder-com" in the body.



			Thanks and if you have any other questions about
making your client Undernet compatible, please don't hesitate to mail
coder-com@undernet.org. Sincerely,


						Mandar Mirashi (Mmmm)

Attached are numeric.h    and the latest Undernet IRC server list (which
you may wish to include with your next client release - it is also available
at  http://www.comco.com/dougmc/irc-stats/server-lists    )


----- numeric.h ------- cut here ------

/************************************************************************
 *   IRC - Internet Relay Chat, include/numeric.h
 *   Copyright (C) 1990 Jarkko Oikarinen
 *
 *   This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
 *   it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
 *   the Free Software Foundation; either version 1, or (at your option)
 *   any later version.
 *
 *   This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
 *   but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
 *   MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
 *   GNU General Public License for more details.
 *
 *   You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
 *   along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
 *   Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
 */



/*
 * Reserve numerics 000-099 for server-client connections where the client
 * is local to the server. If any server is passed a numeric in this range
 * from another server then it is remapped to 100-199. -avalon
 */
#define	RPL_WELCOME          001
#define	RPL_YOURHOST         002
#define	RPL_CREATED          003
#define	RPL_MYINFO           004
#define RPL_MAP              005
#define RPL_MAPMORE          006
#define RPL_MAPEND           007

/*
 * Errors are in the range from 400-599 currently and are grouped by what
 * commands they come from.
 */
#define ERR_NOSUCHNICK       401
#define ERR_NOSUCHSERVER     402
#define ERR_NOSUCHCHANNEL    403
#define ERR_CANNOTSENDTOCHAN 404
#define ERR_TOOMANYCHANNELS  405
#define ERR_WASNOSUCHNICK    406
#define ERR_TOOMANYTARGETS   407
#define ERR_NOSUCHSERVICE    408
#define	ERR_NOORIGIN         409

#define ERR_NORECIPIENT      411
#define ERR_NOTEXTTOSEND     412
#define ERR_NOTOPLEVEL       413
#define ERR_WILDTOPLEVEL     414

#define ERR_UNKNOWNCOMMAND   421
#define	ERR_NOMOTD           422
#define	ERR_NOADMININFO      423
#define	ERR_FILEERROR        424

#define ERR_NONICKNAMEGIVEN  431
#define ERR_ERRONEUSNICKNAME 432
#define ERR_NICKNAMEINUSE    433
#define ERR_SERVICENAMEINUSE 434
#define ERR_SERVICECONFUSED  435
#define	ERR_NICKCOLLISION    436
#define ERR_BANNICKCHANGE    437
#define ERR_NICKTOOFAST      438

#define ERR_USERNOTINCHANNEL 441
#define ERR_NOTONCHANNEL     442
#define	ERR_USERONCHANNEL    443
#define ERR_NOLOGIN          444
#define	ERR_SUMMONDISABLED   445
#define ERR_USERSDISABLED    446

#define ERR_NOTREGISTERED    451

#define ERR_NEEDMOREPARAMS   461
#define ERR_ALREADYREGISTRED 462
#define ERR_NOPERMFORHOST    463
#define ERR_PASSWDMISMATCH   464
#define ERR_YOUREBANNEDCREEP 465
#define ERR_YOUWILLBEBANNED  466
#define	ERR_KEYSET           467

#define ERR_CHANNELISFULL    471
#define ERR_UNKNOWNMODE      472
#define ERR_INVITEONLYCHAN   473
#define ERR_BANNEDFROMCHAN   474
#define	ERR_BADCHANNELKEY    475
#define	ERR_BADCHANMASK      476
#define ERR_BANLISTFULL      478

#define ERR_NOPRIVILEGES     481
#define ERR_CHANOPRIVSNEEDED 482
#define	ERR_CANTKILLSERVER   483
#define ERR_ISCHANSERVICE    484

#define ERR_NOOPERHOST       491
#define ERR_NOSERVICEHOST    492

#define ERR_UMODEUNKNOWNFLAG 501
#define ERR_USERSDONTMATCH   502

#define ERR_SILELISTFULL     511

#define ERR_NOSUCHGLINE      512

/*
 * Numberic replies from server commands.
 * These are currently in the range 200-399.
 */
#define	RPL_NONE             300
#define RPL_AWAY             301
#define RPL_USERHOST         302
#define RPL_ISON             303
#define RPL_TEXT             304
#define	RPL_UNAWAY           305
#define	RPL_NOWAWAY          306

#define RPL_WHOISUSER        311
#define RPL_WHOISSERVER      312
#define RPL_WHOISOPERATOR    313

#define RPL_WHOWASUSER       314
/* rpl_endofwho below (315) */
#define	RPL_ENDOFWHOWAS      369

#define RPL_WHOISCHANOP      316 /* redundant and not needed but reserved */
#define RPL_WHOISIDLE        317

#define RPL_ENDOFWHOIS       318
#define RPL_WHOISCHANNELS    319

#define RPL_LISTSTART        321
#define RPL_LIST             322
#define RPL_LISTEND          323
#define RPL_CHANNELMODEIS    324
#define RPL_CREATIONTIME     329

#define RPL_NOTOPIC          331
#define RPL_TOPIC            332
#define RPL_TOPICWHOTIME     333
#define RPL_LISTUSAGE        334

#define RPL_INVITING         341
#define	RPL_SUMMONING        342

#define RPL_VERSION          351

#define RPL_WHOREPLY         352
#define RPL_ENDOFWHO         315
#define RPL_NAMREPLY         353
#define RPL_ENDOFNAMES       366

#define RPL_KILLDONE         361
#define	RPL_CLOSING          362
#define RPL_CLOSEEND         363
#define RPL_LINKS            364
#define RPL_ENDOFLINKS       365
/* rpl_endofnames above (366) */
#define RPL_BANLIST          367
#define RPL_ENDOFBANLIST     368
/* rpl_endofwhowas above (369) */

#define	RPL_INFO             371
#define	RPL_MOTD             372
#define	RPL_INFOSTART        373
#define	RPL_ENDOFINFO        374
#define	RPL_MOTDSTART        375
#define	RPL_ENDOFMOTD        376

#define RPL_YOUREOPER        381
#define RPL_REHASHING        382
#define RPL_YOURESERVICE     383
#define RPL_MYPORTIS         384
#define RPL_NOTOPERANYMORE   385

#define RPL_TIME             391
#define	RPL_USERSSTART       392
#define	RPL_USERS            393
#define	RPL_ENDOFUSERS       394
#define	RPL_NOUSERS          395

#define RPL_TRACELINK        200
#define RPL_TRACECONNECTING  201
#define RPL_TRACEHANDSHAKE   202
#define RPL_TRACEUNKNOWN     203
#define RPL_TRACEOPERATOR    204
#define RPL_TRACEUSER        205
#define RPL_TRACESERVER      206
#define RPL_TRACESERVICE     207
#define RPL_TRACENEWTYPE     208
#define RPL_TRACECLASS       209

#define RPL_STATSLINKINFO    211
#define RPL_STATSCOMMANDS    212
#define RPL_STATSCLINE       213
#define RPL_STATSNLINE       214
#define RPL_STATSILINE       215
#define RPL_STATSKLINE       216
#define RPL_STATSQLINE       217
#define RPL_STATSYLINE       218
#define RPL_ENDOFSTATS       219

#define RPL_UMODEIS          221

#define RPL_SERVICEINFO      231
#define RPL_ENDOFSERVICES    232
#define	RPL_SERVICE          233
#define RPL_SERVLIST         234
#define RPL_SERVLISTEND      235

#define	RPL_STATSLLINE       241
#define	RPL_STATSUPTIME      242
#define	RPL_STATSOLINE       243
#define	RPL_STATSHLINE       244
#define	RPL_STATSSLINE       245
#define RPL_STATSTLINE       246
#define RPL_STATSGLINE       247
#define RPL_STATSULINE       248	
#define	RPL_STATSDEBUG	     249
#define RPL_STATSCONN        250

#define	RPL_LUSERCLIENT      251
#define RPL_LUSEROP          252
#define	RPL_LUSERUNKNOWN     253
#define	RPL_LUSERCHANNELS    254
#define	RPL_LUSERME          255
#define	RPL_ADMINME          256
#define	RPL_ADMINLOC1        257
#define	RPL_ADMINLOC2        258
#define	RPL_ADMINEMAIL       259

#define	RPL_TRACELOG         261
#define	RPL_TRACEPING        262

#define RPL_SILELIST         271
#define RPL_ENDOFSILELIST    272

#define RPL_STATSDLINE       275

#define RPL_GLIST            280
#define RPL_ENDOFGLIST       281


----- Undernet IRC server list ------- cut here ------

         ALIAS                     IP ADDRESS       HOSTNAME

   vancouver.bc.ca.undernet.org    199.60.229.15  irc.direct.ca
     toronto.on.ca.undernet.org   199.166.230.99  oceanus.magic.ca
    montreal.qu.ca.undernet.org     132.207.4.32  step.polymtl.ca

        caen.fr.eu.undernet.org    193.49.200.16  ns.ensicaen.ismra.fr
  luxembourg.lu.eu.undernet.org   194.177.56.140  hydra.eo.lu
   amsterdam.nl.eu.undernet.org      130.37.24.9  veer.cs.vu.nl
      diemen.nl.eu.undernet.org     145.220.3.40  irc.pi.net
       lulea.se.eu.undernet.org    130.240.16.36  buddy.ludd.luth.se
   ljubljana.si.eu.undernet.org       193.2.1.35  ro.zrsss.si
      london.uk.eu.undernet.org   193.119.122.98  telebsd.aladdin.co.uk

       auckland.nz.undernet.org     202.14.100.6  iconz1.iconz.co.nz

     phoenix.az.us.undernet.org    204.62.193.83  home.amug.org
    sandiego.ca.us.undernet.org     207.110.0.52  irc.connectnet.com
     sanjose.ca.us.undernet.org     192.160.13.8  jitter.rahul.net
  washington.dc.us.undernet.org   152.163.173.25  irc01.irc.aol.com
     atlanta.ga.us.undernet.org      198.79.64.1  serve.org
     chicago.il.us.undernet.org    198.49.174.36  tau.wwa.com
   chicago-1.il.us.undernet.org     199.0.154.14  raptor.ais.net
   manhattan.ks.us.undernet.org     129.130.8.23  lynk.ksu.ksu.edu
      lowell.ma.us.undernet.org   206.15.106.129  chatter-s2.nis.newscorp.com
   ann-arbor.mi.us.undernet.org    192.131.22.80  irc.cic.net
 springfield.mo.us.undernet.org    204.71.96.187  spica.getonthe.net
     stlouis.mo.us.undernet.org   205.216.202.17  ultra.i1.net
    norman-r.ok.us.undernet.org     unresolvable  unknown                       
         okc.ok.us.undernet.org   206.103.114.11  apache.wildstar.com
  pittsburgh.pa.us.undernet.org   192.231.221.38  uirc.lm.com
      austin.tx.us.undernet.org    128.83.199.50  zilker.mc.utexas.edu
      dallas.tx.us.undernet.org    204.75.137.18  external.csac.net
  blacksburg.va.us.undernet.org   128.173.40.203  blacksburg.va.us.undernet.org
  monticello.ar.us.undernet.org   206.156.164.142 irc.seark.net


Note: Most Undernet IRC servers listen on ports 6661-6669.

      The alias us.undernet.org is a roundrobin that picks a US server at
      random (for first time users who aren't sure which server to connect to).
      The same applies to eu.undernet.org (europe). The use of the undernet.org
      alias over the actual hostname is highly recommended (when servers
      cease to exist, the alias will still function since we point it to
      a working server).
       

From friedman  Mon Sep 30 13:45:21 1996
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Message-Id: <199609301842.NAA30763@kiowa.wildstar.net>
From: Mandar Mirashi <mandar@kiowa.wildstar.net>
To: friedman@prep.ai.mit.edu
Subject: IRC client coders update
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:42:25 -0500

Heya,

  Some other random thoughts that might apply to all IRC clients:

* Ports - It would be nice if client coders allow for the specification
  of alternate ports to automatically connect on, if the connect to
  the default port fails. Most servers listen to ports in the range
  6660-6669. It has grown incredibly difficult to connect on the
  default port 6667 on big servers.

* Extensions - As much as some may dislike it, I believe the next "wave"
  of chat clients to hit the net are those that include VRML/audio/video
  communication. There are several independent web sites or proprietary
  developers who provide this, but none of them are integrated into IRC
  clients. You may wish to investigate means of doing this with your clients.

* For those developing GUI clients, one idea would be to have an addressbook
  which includes name, associated GIF file, associated URL, etc. Then
  you could auto-attach a thumbnail gif to the nick, as it scrolls over
  a channel. The nick itself could be "clickable" if a URL field is
  specified, which would make your default browser jump to that location.

* irc-url spec - I haven't updated it for a while. It can be found at:
   ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirashi-url-irc-01.txt
  and the mailing list can be subscribed to, by sending mail to 
  majordomo@wildstar.net with "subscribe irl-url" in the body.

* Nospoof patch - I hope everyone has updated their client (if it needed it)
  to work with the PING/PONG and other Undernet ircd changes I'd sent earlier. 

			That's all for now..thanks

							Mmmm

From pp@swip.net  Thu Feb  6 01:45:10 1997
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	["1405" "" "6" "Feb" "1997" "10:31:44" "+0100" "Per Persson" "pp@swip.net" nil "49" "CTCP discussion list." "^From:" nil nil "02" nil nil nil nil]
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From: Per Persson <pp@swip.net>
To: zenirc-dev@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: CTCP discussion list.
Date: 06 Feb 1997 10:31:44 +0100
Lines: 49

This might be of interest to you. There's a discussion going and I'm
pretty sure that the list-maintainer (Lindsay) has an archive of all
mails going through the list.

--pp

Forwarded-By: Darren Reed <avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au>

From: Mike McLagan <mmclagan@invlogic.com>
Message-Id: <199702030750.CAA29332@linux.invlogic.com>
Subject: Referenced CTCP Standards Group
To: ircd@the-project.org (IRC Development Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:50:10 -0500 (EST)
Cc: operlist@the-project.org (IRC Operators List)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

   I made reference today in my emails to a CTCP standards group.  This is
based from a number of client coders, and has turned into an email list and
an Internet Draft document (formerly called a Draft RFC).  The list is hosted
by Zircon author Lindsay Marshall.

   To join the list send "subscribe ctcp your name" to:

   listproc%catless@newcastle.ac.uk.

   If you want to see the current draft, you can send me a private email
message, or visit my company's web site at:

   http://www.invlogic.com/irc/ctcp.html

   Mike was here...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv

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6sHzuP4NtvX87GdYlJh98qwaww/I5IxhgNWt3ydOWMV6c99dzv2GqyZG4f+xUNK+
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------- End of forwarded message -------

From mandar@cherokee.wildstar.net  Wed Feb 26 19:15:07 1997
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From: Mandar Mirashi <mandar@cherokee.wildstar.net>
To: friedman@prep.ai.mit.edu
Subject: IRC client coders update #6
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:12:52 -0600

Heya,

    Here's some information re: the next upcoming release of the Undernet
server code - u2.10 (still in beta). Please mail coder-com@undernet.org
directly if you have any concerns. 

    The other thing I wanted to check was if you'd be interested in joining 
a mailing list open ONLY to client coders, to discuss client issues (the
"colour" issue being an egregious example). I'd be more than willing to
set one up. You can mail me at mandar@wildstar.net re: this.

Thanks

Mmmm

Mandar Mirashi            
Maintainer: ftp.undernet.org, Undernet IRC FAQ.
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.irc.undernet
For IRC help/Undernet information, check out http://www.undernet.org 

---
>From carlo@runaway.xs4all.nl Wed Feb 26 21:03:23 1997
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:11:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Carlo Wood <carlo@runaway.xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: coder-com@undernet.org
To: coder committee <coder-com@mail.undernet.org>
Subject: [C-Com] Server NOtice numerics

Hiya,

can someone asap pass this info to the client coders ?!!

A new numeric 249:

Example:

4.undernet.org 249 nick :Servernotice mask: 12287 (0x2fff)

Where the number 12287 is a bit-or-ed mask with the meaning:

#define SNO_OLDSNO      0x1     /* unsorted old messages */
#define SNO_SERVKILL    0x2     /* server kills (nick collisions) */
#define SNO_OPERKILL    0x4     /* oper kills */
#define SNO_HACK2       0x8     /* desyncs */
#define SNO_HACK3       0x10    /* temporary desyncs */
#define SNO_UNAUTH      0x20    /* unauthorized connections */
#define SNO_TCPCOMMON   0x40    /* common TCP or socket errors */
#define SNO_TOOMANY     0x80    /* too many connections */
#define SNO_HACK4       0x100   /* Uworld actions on channels */
#define SNO_GLINE       0x200   /* glines */
#define SNO_NETWORK     0x400   /* net join/break, etc */
#define SNO_IPMISMATCH  0x800   /* IP mismatches */
#define SNO_OLDREALOP   0x1000  /* old oper-only messages */
#define SNO_CONNEXIT    0x2000  /* client connect/exit (ugh) */

One can set this way a more specific filter for server notices:

/MODE nick +s 3847

Or add (set) an EXTRA bit:

/MODE nick +s 128

Note the extra numeric parameter (space seperated from the umodes).

This would also work:

/MODE mynick +iswd 853



/MODE nick -s 64

Unsets bits (/MODE nick -s 96  unsets both 64 and 32).

This will be added to undernet server version 2.10.
The new numeric will be returned every time you set a new mask, or
when you ask you umode with '/MODE nick' and the mask is unequal
the default mask. The default mask is unfortunately subject to
change, but currently 1540 (0x604).
Doing /MODE nick +s, will NOT give the 249 numeric, but set the
mask to the default mask.

Run

PS

If client coders absolutely want to know what the default mask is
I suggest they use this string: MODE <nick> +ss 2147483648
This currently gives (ircII):
--> MODE Run4 -s
*** Mode change "-s" for user Run4 by Run4
--> MODE Run4 +ss 2147483648
*** Mode change "+s" for user Run4 by Run4
249 Servernotice mask:  1540 (0x604)

PS2

Unofficial ;), one can also do: /MODE nick +s -4 , to uset bit '4',
and even /MODE nick -s -4, to SET bit '4'.

--
 ircd development:  http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/ircd-dev 
>From carlo@runaway.xs4all.nl Wed Feb 26 21:03:58 1997
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:28:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Carlo Wood <carlo@runaway.xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: coder-com@undernet.org
To: coder-com@undernet.org
Cc: ircii-epic@concentric.net
Subject: Re: [C-Com] client-coder feedback

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Well, first of all - BECAUSE the server isn't released and tested yet
this might change all a few times more :), so don't rush your implementation.

Most important changes ALREADY are:

- - There will be a NEW numeric (249 was already used I learned).
- - The trick with +ss <large number> will NOT work, you can use
  +ss +<large number> now (note the extra '+').

I see no problem in attaching the digits to the s.. thus:

/MODE Run +s29382

It just doesn't look as well... and users might type a space intuitively.
There is no problem with MY ircII (-2.8.2) client and multiple umode params...

We DID have a long discussion about this yes, because initially we wanted
to use server-notice-channels. But that sucks for multi-window clients like
mIRC (without patches), so we ended up by making a new user mode.
It seems likely that more then 31 server-notice-"channels" will be needed
yes, in which case a decimal number is bad thing to do.
I'm open for a quick discussion on a new interface.

Run

PS Please forward this to other client-coders again :)
   Is there a list of addresses I could use ?


| ------- Forwarded Message
| 
| Received: from SOUTH-STATION-ANNEX.MIT.EDU by po9.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA06626; Wed, 26 Feb 97 00:17:20 EST
| Received: from listopher.concentric.net by MIT.EDU with SMTP
| 	id AA10334; Wed, 26 Feb 97 00:17:18 EST
| Received: (from majordom@localhost) 
| 	by listopher.concentric.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) 
| 	id AAA18002; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:14:09 -0500 (EST)
| Message-Id: <199702260512.XAA00381@brain.acronet.net>
| To: ircii-epic@concentric.net
| From: jnelson@acronet.net
| Subject: Re: Ircii-epic: New Undernet feature 
| In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:49:37 EST."
|              <9702260049.AA12854@starkiller.MIT.EDU> 
| Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:12:45 -0600
| Sender: owner-ircii-epic@concentric.net
| Precedence: bulk
| 
| 
| (Specifically to Kev, in general to everyone on the list...)
| Forward this to anyone you think is interested in my opinion...
| 
| 
| >One can set this way a more specific filter for server notices:
| 
| [user mode +s takes an argument now]
| 
| 
| Please note the importance of this:  This proposal would stipulate
| the first user mode that is to take an argument.  While this is not
| (neccesarily) against the spirit of modes, i would make an educated
| guess that ircII is not the only client in the world that optimizes
| its handling of user modes with the assumption that arguments are not
| present.
| 
| The reason why this is significant is not because of the specific use
| of the argument, but rather that current clients will have to be retro
| fitted with code that will be able to handle arguments on user modes,
| and the fact that since you are overloading a current user mode, you
| are introducing a gratuitous incompatability which makes the job of a
| client coder all that much harder becuase now ill have to special case
| the undernet 2.10 server for this exceptional behavior.  It is very fair
| to say that this is <not> an insignificant change.
| 
| While i will probably support this before its all said and done, I want
| to make sure that I tell you that I HOPE you thought about this and ruled
| out all other reasonable solutions other than having user modes take
| arguments.  I dont expect this to change, and thats the way it is:
| I do appreciate your giving far advance notice instead of just releasing
| the code and then griping that current clients dont support it correctly.
| (ala efnet 2.9)
| 
| This will certainly not be supported or retrofitted on any already
| released EPIC client (eg, epic3), but probably will eventually be supported
| in the EPIC4 development cycle.  I cannot give you any assurances when.
| Please re-assure me that you will always have less than 32 flags for this
| new user mode. 
| 
| Jeremy
| 
| ------- End of Forwarded Message
| 
| 
| -- 
| Kevin L. Mitchell
| ----------------------------------------------------------
| kev@undernet.org     kev@wildstar.net      klmitch@mit.edu
|     PGP keys:  http://web.mit.edu/klmitch/www/pgp.html
|         Home Page: http://web.mit.edu/klmitch/www/

- -- 
 carlo@runaway.xs4all.nl, Run @ IRC.

 ircd development:  http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/ircd-dev 

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